One of the true treasures in this industry has to be Richard Greaves. He started in this industry in 1979, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and has held many roles and shops and companies in the supply chain.
During his career, Richard has traveled the world, assisting shops with improvement and changes, and as always open to assisting someone new to resolve their problems.
So get ready to get a hand cramp from the knowledge bombs that he's gonna be dropping today on this episode of Success Stories, and don't say that I didn't warn you.
One of the true treasures in this industry has to be Richard Greaves. He started in this industry in 1979, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and has held many roles and shops and companies in the supply chain.
During his career, Richard has traveled the world, assisting shops with improvement and changes, and as always open to assisting someone new to resolve their problems.
So get ready to get a hand cramp from the knowledge bombs that he's gonna be dropping today on this episode of Success Stories, and don't say that I didn't warn you.
Marshall Atkinson
Welcome to Success Stories brought to you by S&S activewear. I'm your host, Marshall Atkinson. And this is the podcast that focuses on what's working so you can have success to one of the true treasures in this industry has to be Richard Greaves. He started in this industry in 1979, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and has held many roles and shops and companies in the supply chain. During his career, Richard has traveled the world, assisting shops with improvement changes, and as always open to assisting someone new to resolve their problems. So get ready to get a hand cramp from the knowledge bombs that he's gonna be dropping today on this episode of Success Stories, and don't say that I didn't warn you. So Richard, welcome to the Success Stories podcast. How you doing today?
Richard Greaves
Good morning, tell, I notice that since this is an on video can't see me chuckling who wrote that? Who wrote that?
Marshall Atkinson
I wrote that just for you. It's all out of love and respect, man.
Richard Greaves
I appreciate it. Thank you.
Marshall Atkinson
So you live in Michigan,
Richard Greaves
I had a stroke in 2009. And when I lived in New York City, where I was always wanted to be, but you know, with a stroke, they didn't keep my job for me at ulana. So I retired with a with an old girlfriend, Gina coffee here in Wyandotte, Michigan, overlooking the fabulous Canada over the Detroit River.
Marshall Atkinson
That was great. So let's get talking about your origin story and your career and stuff. Because I know all about you. But maybe there's a listener right there is like, Who is this guy? And why should I be listening? So let's start with your origin story. And you've held so many different jobs in your career. So let's get the World Tour in just a couple of minutes.
Richard Greaves
So in thinking about what you're going to ask me today, one of the things that comes up and I don't remember who actually said it, was that you can't really create a career out of following the footsteps of someone else. But I think that the way I was brought up as a boy has a lot to do with my mindset through my entire career. That's something you just can't duplicate. You can't be Bill Gates or, or Steve Jobs. And you can't be Richard Griese, because I grew up in the middle of my grandfather's landscape nursery. And in the winter, in the nursery, we stored boats because he also had a summary job reads Great Lakes Marines. So my life was based on tractors, cultivating equipment, crews that came in to dig trees. That's what the little boy in me saw every day, every summer, certainly. And I learned so much about work ethic and stuff like that working from my grandfather. My father's office was literally part of the property also. So literally, when I woke up and walked through one door, we were in my father's Landscape Architecture business. So everything we did was outside. Now I did start Skiing. Skiing was a big part of my winters. And I ski professionally, I was a ski instructor for many years until I just, I ran out of patience for that. But in my father's business, I wasn't making any money. And when I got to be about 27 years old, I said, You know what, I just don't want to do this anymore. We had a project in Chicago, big project, but my brother Kevin, and I supposed to get a big cash deposit or reward for all the work we put in for two years, the big project, and didn't come out at this time rich. And so I looked for another job. And we had a family friend that we'd also worked for was part of the manpower Business Training Institute, manpower, people rental, that was the great cyclone. He said, come and work for me. And I've got a job. We've got a girl that's going into the army, you can come in and be part of our screen department. What is that stuff, but I didn't go in as a screen printer. I went in as a production coordinator. And so I was doing production control, which is basically what I did in landscape architecture, making sure people put the right things in the right places. And people didn't come when they weren't supposed to come that the holes were dug. And the pleat trees were the proper trees. So I already was scheduled and because I could do that in my sleep. And one of the things that I did egging the owners was, can't I get some kind of a computer because doing the scheduling by hand. That's crazy. And so literally, I bought my own RadioShack computer, which meant that I went to the bank holding the up under my family friend, Carol Sanders, I want to buy a computer. And she looked at me with those bankers and Richard, what are you going to do with a computer because it was 1980 1981. So I was doing production scheduling in a spreadsheet. And I learned about debase. And I was doing that sort of things. And then my life changed drastically like lightning. The owners had hired Duke Dalton and Jeffrey Gitomer to come and consult, they were the what I call the pros from Dover, after mash, they call themselves the pros from Dover, when they went to Korea, or they were in Korea all the time. So Jeffrey, and Duke, they came in, and they were my light out of the company. They were the gateway that I was able to go, they liked me right away. They said, well, we want Richard to drive us around, we want you to do this. And I ended up building forms during production control, you know, learning from them. And they're the ones who said, We want Richard to leave the office where he's wearing nice clothes. And we wanted to go upstairs and run the shop. And I didn't know one end of a squeegee from another. I knew scheduling. And thus, I went up and ran the shop, and learned as I went along, I didn't know how to turn on the oven, I didn't know one end of a squeegee from another. The first job I ever did was a bootleg job. It was for a girl I knew I didn't we all start with that kind of a job and didn't know how to turn on the oven. And so I knew how to heat seal. So I print the white ink on a red shirt, what a job to start with. And I would run down two flights of stairs and heat seal it on the heat seal machine, which is on the first floor, up and down, up and down, up and down. But what I learned there was part of the will flex PC system that I had no idea what this was, I had a lot of crash and burn stories up. You know, I discovered things like the guys were telling me know, rich, Barry's gonna have to make a new screen, which the ink dried in the screen. I don't know, I don't know how to happen. And so after like three of these one a week for a while, I look up that dam, and I'm gonna find out what's right here. Oh, what's this? T 9000. I saw some of that t 9000. Ink solvent. Oh, and I tried some took the ink right out of the mesh. And who do you think was waiting with my arms crossed at 701 in the morning when the boys showed up? And I showed them how I could clean a screen. And they all look at their feet. And I say, right. I know that. But don't pull that crap on me again. You said no profanity. But these are quotes from my life.
So that's where I learned there's a million stories there because that was but they were t-shirt wholesalers. They were they had an automatic printing press. So I didn't really have to learn manual printing, of course, but I got to learn on a cameo and advanced cameo. So as things went on, I didn't get any more money. And so after three six month weights of not getting any more money, I sort of said, you know, adios, and I quit and cycle and Tony, you gotta give me two more weeks. And so in two weeks, we didn't tell anybody but I did three weeks of scheduling. Got it, you know, got everything going in. Literally when I announced to the factory, my employees on Friday that I was quitting, and this is my last day. And who calls me on Saturday, Vern Hollaback Vern Hollaback was a legend in the transfer industry. He still has companies, you know, to this day. I haven't seen Vernon in ages. But Varun, we had done some business because they were right there in the same town. And so I went to little to work Tuesday, I had Monday off I forget what it was, you know, whatever. But something happened. But Tuesday I started Hollaback I don't know what site colon call me of what we're trying to do is this. Yeah, I'm busy. I'm working on doing a thing for Varun Hollaback. And it was fun to say Sorry, can't talk by. And so now Hollaback wasn't for me. I only lasted there a little while I helped to build a flocking machine. It came from Germany the market shake machine walking. Oh my god. I hate Oh, yeah. Building it in that secret building number seven are pretty with the number of the building was they moved two or three times since then. But what did I get next? Jeffrey Gitomer says, I've got a job for you in San Diego and I said, Oh, gee, do I have to go there? It's January. And so he put me in a consulting job. And for those of you that don't know Jeffrey Gitomer, Jeffrey Gitomer is a sales leader, the top in his industry. I think he's written about 20 books. And he'd been a lifelong friend to me based on what we've done, which is just starting here on this particular story, but I went to San Diego and did a job there learned about California printing. That's where I actually got to meet Patrick Nagel, I was in LA to do some business. I said, Oh, I want to go to Santa Monica. I want to see this. Patrick Nagel place. And Patrick was in there, but I met the ladies that ran the place. And they fixed it up. So I would meet him I had dinner with he and his and his wife on that particular trip. And then when I lived in Philadelphia, I saw him several other times until he ruined everything and died in 1984. So haven't even gotten out of the 80s yet. So I started doing consulting work until Jeffrey Gitomer called and said, Stop what you're doing. I was in Miami at the time. And he said, Stop what you're doing. I've got two partners that know how to make sure it's, you know, how to make sure it's better than they ever will. And we started a factory in Pennsylvania called Pennsylvania knitwear, and created a T Shirt Company called Shadow graphics and work that I had done in North Carolina, where we printed on sleeves before they were sewn. So I was the guy that led the crew when we built the first idea to shirts for John McEnroe that he wore at Wimbledon, because that had printing on it black printing on it. And those were printed on the sleeves before they were sewn. And it caused quite an uproar, because they weren't pure whites as you're supposed to do in England. So because it's all your fault, Richard? Oh, yes, I did what I was told I did what I was told. But that was another company where I just wasn't getting the respect that I wanted. And I said, you know, I'm moving on. So luckily, Shadow graphics has to be the best place I ever worked. Because I got to build it my way, was my factory in a building I picked out the equipment was fair, complete. And we just did fantastic work there. That's where I learned super high production because we did work for the Olympics. Marshal, I know that you've done work for the Olympics, too. That was another job. This is the job that, you know, when partners love each other. Sometimes they have a difference of opinion. And Jeffrey and I had that opinion, where he asked me to come down to the factory, and I got a job doing contract printing for rights net worth for the Olympics. Great. Okay, what is the job pay? And he says, eight and a half cents per print. And this is yes, this is 1983. But eight and a half cents per print. The ladies in the art department drew a picture of that event, even though they weren't there. Because they have me strangling Jeffrey across the desk. My ankles have caught on the other side of the desk. So I'm not able to actually kill him. But I remember yelling so that the windows rattled. They just I know, I know. I know. I know. And it was super hard work because it was, you know, here get this done Richard and then Jeffrey wood off selling things. He was great at selling things. And like all salesmen, they bring you this dead mouse like your your cat brings you look what I have for you. Don't you love it, but boil boil boy, were we able to train new people, because it was basically only six different designs. And we knew when the truck arrived, labels and go, Oh, this is what we're printing today. So we had to have the screens ready had to have the inks ready. And broom, the shirts that get turned around because we got four trucks a day from writes that were so ever profitable. I was involved in the money. That was Jeffrey's career but but that's the forge that created the monster that is Richard grieves, we all have that story of that place that there I was, you know, the king, so to speak, we got stuff done. We were a miracle place. And that's where I met most people because they came the world beat a path to our door because I could print full color process. And in that era 1983 1984 Let's say that there was Bill Waner, Mark Coudray, Jerry claws and oats, which stood for ocean Atlantic textiles. But it was in Cape May court house, New Jersey. He had a great operation there. And I'm trying to think if there was anybody else was in football process. There. We were doing work with the great great Fred Clark during our separations. And there was no discussion when it came to Fred. You sent it in and he got it done when he got it done. And that was that. So literally, the world beat a path where I don't and Jeffrey had things that he could show people they went, oh my because we were printing on sleeves before they were sewn. We were knitting the garments that I would buy cones of yarn from North Carolina have it shipped up to the knitting house, then they would send it to the dye house and it would go to the cut and sew place. They would send sleeves down to us we put the sleeves we'd send it back to the cotton so as a few days later, we get the full body shirts, finished the print on the body. Put whatever label you want in whatever color you want in whatever color you want in and print custom designs that were made just for you. And they were laying ski boots so we had penguins climbing up one sleeve. Going down the L shape, we turn the L shape or the Great, the lovely Kim querque created a L shaped ski ramp where they flew on and then came around the back And then came around the front again, did all sorts of designs like that? Speedo, all sorts of undersea designs where they're finding buried treasure of the speedo logo. The logo was always artistically hidden into the design. So it wasn't a big logo, upsetting during that time. That's when I met Don noon. Because I had gone to tech simsa Technical symposium, SGI used to do, there was one in Chicago. And Coudray had told me, yes, you got to come. Because you've got to meet Michelle causa, the full color process or printing master that he was. And this is, I forget, it was 1984, though. And when I'm sitting in the lobby, this very odd looking man comes in, he's got two cards that he's pulling in, and there's all kinds of stuff sticking out of it, including an automobile tire. Oh, and where was that guy? Well, that turned out to be done Newman. And I got introduced to Don Newman, and he asked him questions about potential. And because of my racing background in automobile racing, and structural engineering, those things that I learned in landscape architecture, I understood right away that I understood about the way that mesh loses tension based on the fact that that's what happens to automobile tires. When in the racing groups, I dealt with tires about the only thing that they'd let me really do because I was young in those days. But, you know, you learn an awful lot from all those mechanics named Fritz and Hans that really show you how to rebuild a transmission in a grass racetrack hack. So I met Don Newman, and he asked me to do some work for him. The first job was to set up the SGA meeting for them in Dundalk, I forget what you that's probably 85 or 86. I don't remember what. And when I did that. I did a real good job of that. It was just a contracting job. And he asked me to work. And the first job I was in Canada doing the consulting job. And he says, how quickly can you get to Hawaii next week. Anyway, Hawaii, that was the first job I had to do. I had to go to Hawaii and do a trade show. For one shot supply.
Marshall Atkinson
I'm glad you took one for the team must have been horrible. I got to go because we did seminars
Richard Greaves
with otter type. And the vice president or president of autoriteit. Jim Mccourty. Like to go to the football game that happens after the Super Bowl, the Pro Bowl, the Pro Bowl. And so he always did the seminars in February in Hawaii, so that he could be there. So I ended up I believe four years in a row. I did seminars with Jim, in Hawaii. So I worked for stretch devices. And I was the man in the field. So I traveled with distributors. So that's how I got to meet literally hundreds of salespeople, hundreds of distributors. And I left that job after about a year and a half. Because, again, there wasn't really that much money. I love Donald and I have the logo emblazoned on my heart, like a tattoo. So I'm a Newman guy from way back because I believed in the technology. And that was my job was to do things that Don couldn't do. He didn't have to travel as much, because I went and saw all those people. So that's when I started my consulting career. And as you said, I've got to go almost every place that anybody would want to go. The only job that I subbed out, I didn't go to Africa once I had a guy do it for me. And so I've never been to Africa and ever. I've been in Spain and in whatever. So I can see Africa practically across the water, but nope, never been to Africa. Otherwise, I've been basically everyplace else. And it was my good friend, Mark Coudray, who was kidding me one time and said, you know, Richard, this traveling, you know, he was traveling as much as I would, but he he was giving me the Wrath and saying, you know, one of these days, you're gonna break your leg in order gray or something like that. And then you'll be in real trouble. And I actually I took that to heart because, you know, I was getting a wee bit older. And then the land has been brothers at an SGA show. They grabbed he said, Let's go to lunch, and said what you we want you to come to work for us wants you to be the Director of supply at Lawson. And I went health insurance. They went yeah. And I said yes, and moved to St. Louis. So again, that was a job that really the thing that I needed to do more than anything else was not find new supply things. I knew the supplies. And when people were on the telephone with the ladies in the bullpen, I'd be able to hear from my office. If I stood up in my desk, and came out the window and I get a look from one of the ladies or they would pass me something because if they didn't know how to do it, I was the next tier level. But on the telephone, if I was on the phone for more than 10 minutes, which as you can imagine that happened quite a bit. A little light went off and David Landis men's office, and then he would slowly walk to the back and Richard Who's that? Who said on the phone, who are you talking? But I love my loss and fan I love working there was a great experience. I love Ben and Dave, I treasure those years. But and I'd say this is a kiss my land has been brothers, we call each other brother and mean it. No more money. And David Isaac vice called me and said, Richard, would you like to come to New York? And he said, New York, you come to luck and be the product manager at gelato? And I said, Yes. And I moved to New York. And their product manager was a lot of things, the big project that they wanted me to work on. And what it attracted me was my knowledge of inkjet printing, which had just barely become the work I'd done for auto type. I've done some work for their laser printing thing. And so Scott freshener and I had seen a laser printer that print 95. Or it might have been print 90, I think was Bretton 90. Sorry about that, because it could have been 95. So we saw the Zonta, a screenwriter, who is not a screenwriter, and I loved it. So we're walking down the aisle, and we get maybe 100 feet past. And we slow down together. And I look at Scott and he looked at me. Did you see that? And I said, Yeah, what was that and we burl back and got the complete introduction. I had done work with stalls, doing seminars for stalls all over the country, a holiday and every three days. And I was the only part of the 65 seminars that we did all over the country that year 92 to 93 I think they were and they would fly in different people from stalls to do a seminar on their new Lightning graphics computer system, which was super state of the art when we look at it now. It was like a fisher price set but we were cutting edge and I was the bait. I would talk about screen printing in the morning and then they would try and sell them the lightning graphics system met a lot of nice people. It's dollar love my friends at stalls, and Ted skulls, and David Landesman are the two best bosses I ever worked for. So I've done some work for honor type on their laser film. And so I knew quite a bit about that. And I started to work on developing the system that would be the inkjet film and that order I that Ilana says to this day, and so that men really bearing into the Epson inkjet printers and creating copy writing articles and talking about what reps are doing and what inkjet does. And that was a great time to be doing that. I was on a show we see the cutting edge I knew as much as anybody about inkjet film and Hs that was a great part of time.
Marshall Atkinson
So when you worked your lawn Oh, is that when you started writing for screenprint? Magazine?
Richard Greaves
No, I worked for screenprint magazine, I gave a speech at Tech Simps in Toronto, Canada, that would be 1984 I guess. And in attendance was Susan Bunnell, the editor of screenprint magazine. And Barbara Montgomery, the editor of impressions magazine, they sat together and listened to my seminar. And both of them when I sat down with them later, because I knew them. They both said, Richard, you got to write articles. And I asked a couple of people and chose screenprinting magazine. And that's how I met Susan Bunnell. And thus Tomash fresca, the man who made me a better writer better than anyone else, because he corrected me rather than just edited me. I love sutras. But when you see this, my dear, I'm sending you hugs and kisses. But she added to my stuff. And it didn't sound like me anymore. And that was something I really didn't like. But Tamasha was explained to me how I could change it, and give me a chance to change it. I wrote for 11 years, both Tom and Sue left the magazine. And it was Steve de Chile, who insisted when he took over his editor Steve de chile said, You're gonna have a contract. Well, I never had a contract with Sue and Tom. Now for me, you've got to have a contract. And one of the parts of the contract was if I was late with a column, they could run something else and not pay me. And so I did that twice. And Steve didn't like that, and fired me. So I got fired for using the contract. So I thought it was clever. But oopsie I lost my spot, in the most important magazine in the business. Because I was spiteful. I was gonna teach that Steve to Chile a lesson. And he taught me the whip hand.
Marshall Atkinson
And some irony here is I have a column in screenprinting magazine, and I don't have a contract.
Richard Greaves
Now, again, like the holodeck story, I get a call from Mark Buchanan, the editor of print where magazine says, I want you to be who was actually Bob weaver who said it but Mark called me and said, you want to talk to Bob Weaver because we've got some things we'd like to offer you. And so Bob, we were called me and said, We want you to be the technical editor. We want you to read what the magazine is about to put up before we do any questions at Mark Scott wrote two features a year and a Have a column yourself. And what Yes. So I wrote for printer magazine until it basically phased out as the magazine got smaller and smaller in, in the 2000s. I forget when that was, I wrote for print whereby seven or eight years, and I don't actually remember how we parted because I still have great admiration for Bob. In fact, we talked to probably just about two months ago, when I, I needed some old back issues in the magazine, I was very, very big on back issues of the magazines because I would visit so many people. And they didn't have screenprint magazine or impressions or T shirt retailer or any of the magazines. And so I would fix it up that they would call the ladies at screenprint magazine and say I'd like a three year subscription starting three years ago, and they would get a big box and have to pay for the three years that got rid of old back issues for SPM screenprinting magazine and it got people the stuff that they should be reading. And there's where my depression mentality is something that has, you know, the fixing of equipment back at the old homestead. The old Greaves nursery reads boatyard. It was fix things rather than buy new. And I have many stories of, you know, when I got involved in comic books, wow. My dad said, Yeah, I used to have a lot of comic books, my mom threw them away. And there were several stories like that, that they people throw away and I'm reading I was madly involved with watching movies in the turn of the 80s 1970. I would go to sometimes four movies a week. And document I was definitely into the movies. That's a whole different life story kind of a thing. But you'd hear that MGM burned all their old nitrate stock because they needed to storage space. And now we hear that about SGA. And the magazine's Who do you think as all the SGA magazines now? Richard grieves, because they want to closet space. So thank goodness, Marcy Kinter. Sent that Richard really liked these. Let me tell you the best Kismet story, I'm in Australia. I'm getting a tour of Melbourne and Melbourne training something or other and the guy that had hired me to come down there and work with them part of that group and I was getting a tour on the weekend of there so that we could we could learn about how we could create some new training documents for them. And they had to go Dude, get some keys. And so we're in this dark room somewhere near the back. And they say, oh, Richard, you gotta go back and get some keys. Just wait here. I'll be right back. While I'm there, a janitor comes by, with kind of a wagon with screen printing magazines on it. And he can't find his keys either. And I looked at them, and they're old magazines, they're old magazines. And he they're all bounded twined he's going outside. I said, What are you gonna do those magazines? Oh, they're going in incinerator? Could I have them? Sure, take them. And if I'd been 10 minutes later, or 10 minutes faster, I never would have crossed paths or that guy. And I got what must have been two and a half feet of most of my old screenprint a magazine from the 50s 60s and 70s. Nobody's got any more. I also read an article, there was a letter to the editor in screenprint magazine from the great array colo, and he said, Hey, anybody want my old magazines? And boom, I was on the phone to him. And I dedicate my library to recall because I don't know the name of the guy in Australia. That really got me started on collecting the old magazines. I don't have all but I got more than anybody else.
Marshall Atkinson
It's Fred the janitor for your library just doesn't sound right.
Richard Greaves
No. I'm glad I got that story in there.
Marshall Atkinson
Like once you hear so far, be sure to subscribe so you can get the latest from Success Stories. And now here's Zack shortly with the S&S spotlight
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Marshall Atkinson
One of the things I'm always amazed to be about you is the fact that you're so well read and I want to hear how you stumbled on your favorite book to second lien by Paul Akers. So here's your chance to plug why that book is such a landmark. A pivotal thing for you and why you talk about it non stop.
Richard Greaves
I didn't understand what you mean Marshall. A chance to mention to you is the sun shining you know how many wait for Since I've given two second lead copies, you know, I'm tasting here. So I've been a student, shall we say, of quality because in the 8070s and 80s, it was quality that I was focusing on. So that means Duran and Edmund Deming, Philip Crosby, the Japanese guy that worked at Toyota that I can never ever, ever remember how to pronounce his name, so I apologize. But the guy who wrote the Toyota way I was. So I was reading these books on quality, and using those statistical measuring things, production control, and it was a basic thing in production control, even before I was at eat or manufacturing. The One Minute Manager books Ken Blanchard worked on actually got to meet Ken Blanchard, with Jeffrey Gitomer, taping them as they talked him in a hotel room and stuff like that. So I've had some great experiences with those guys. And I heard about two second lien from David Blake's brother in law, David Parmenter, he turned me on to it, he was the guy who worked all over Europe for stretch devices. And once I saw it and read it, it was magic. And I'm guessing this is 2012 13, something like that. It was after I had a stroke. So, you know, that's when I actually discovered it. And it literally, it's a tiny little book, you can read it in a half a day if you really have to, but there's too much in it to absorb for philosophical things. And so I grabbed on to it, because it wasn't one of these big, thick books that you could look over here, you know, they're all an inch thick, those QC books. And it wasn't technical. It was by Paul Akers. And he was doing it in a real folksy way. And he got good solid advice. And he showed people how to do the coffee part of your shop, or the coffee part at home, how you can bring lean in anywhere. And it's been a philosophy of lean, just to shave off a little bit, every time that the Japanese do it. You know, as soon as you've got your time's down, they take something away from you, like an employee or a tool or something, because they just make it a little tougher, that's part of the scheme. Not like Jack Welsh, firing the 10% that he doesn't like it and accompany but, you know, reading about leadership like that, to second lien, it's the standard, just as the One Minute Manager meets the monkey. And books like Carl stools book, customers for life has been I mean, I've got lots and lots of books before two second lean, there was always the goal. The great day, Jan kowski, told me about it when we're at some sort of a trade show. And it was a book called The Goal by Eli Goldratt. And this is a book you had to order, so I didn't get it right away. And finally, I happen to be in Chicago. And it was the big, big big Barnes and Noble bookstore in Chicago. And there was it was on the shelf. Because, you know, it was a book that Dave told me about, but you know, I didn't know how much of a change it would be to my life. And I remember reading it in an airplane. And at the end of the airplane trip, I went, Oh, why did I take so long to read this book? Dave was absolutely right. And it's a story that's told us a novel. And it's basically the idea of looking for waste, looking for bottlenecks. That's where the term comes in, certainly in my and focusing on anything that creates downtime. So downtime, is the one thing I seem to carry along with me all the time. If you have that instinctive look for when things are not going well. There's some reason for me, I created the slogan, doesn't that bother you? And I remember when I did it, and when I read to second lien, and Paul Akers has a slogan that doesn't have bug you. Well, I got the sweatshirts to prove that I had doesn't that bother you? From the early 1980s? We're just kindred spirits right from the beginning.
Marshall Atkinson
That's great. And you've been talking about it for as long as I've known you.
Richard Greaves
Well, I visited you and I could still walk better. Because I was in Wisconsin. And you know, you had started being as prolific as you are. And I made a drive up to go see my pals that visual and introduce myself to you. And of course, I remember I came in I said, Do you know who I am? I remember when I said it, I felt so stupid. Because it wasn't you know who I am? Get me out of the ticket or give me a better suite at the hotel? It was am I just a guy? Is that a name that rings a bell and you said yes Richard, I've read your stuff.
Marshall Atkinson
I hope I said that.
Richard Greaves
No, I remember I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed. And I remember that I had just been a visual before because of Eisenach had had me come in and talk full color process. I think it was like Who years before then or after I forget what it was. I forget what it was, but I'd been there.
Marshall Atkinson
So I know you've helped an insane number of people over the years improve their shops. So like, what are your top two or three, four things that really everyone should be doing? But maybe, you know, they just skipped over it, Richard, you know what I'm talking about? Right? So what should we be focusing on? So
Richard Greaves
if I had to come down to one thing, it would be the fact that people are not really measuring what they're doing that the basic time study of, how long does it take for a piece of artwork to go through and flow through your factory from start to finish? Is it pre made art already? Is it something that we can easily just pull out of a positive bag? And just make new screens? And then how will we schedule it because you will remember that in the early 80s, as soon as I could buy a computer, or before I could buy a computer, I was scheduling and timing, how long it took for a job based on what I called its degree of difficulty. I was a swim team manager in high school. And so the diving team was part of that. And so the degree of difficulty was a diving term. That's the only reason that I knew that term. And so the degree of difficulty on this job, well, this had a flash in it, or this had three colors on this kind of fabric. And it was somewhere that I determined. And I believe that it was mean, I had somebody else telling me that I determined that five minutes was the standard that I had, that I used for setting up time, and three minutes for teardown. When I worked with Don Newman and was doing that sort of explanation. Don Newman told me, Richard, call it the international standard. From then on. I call it so the international standard for for setup is five minutes per call or three protect, and you'd see people in the seminars, writing that down, okay. And no one has ever, ever asked you where did that come from. So
Marshall Atkinson
that's amazing. I can't, I've been using five minutes a screen forever. And I don't know where that came from, and most probably came from you.
Richard Greaves
In the olden days and the columns and the seminars, because in the good old days of the magazines, I would sometimes give 25 or 30 trade shows or open houses, because they're all the shows, you take graphic solutions group when they used to be called Texas screen supply, a warehouse tradeshow that people would come to in the spring Harco used to do it when they were called Harco. And then Brown. Brown has ever done that sort of thing. But these were things that every Nastar branch had, you know, warehouse things that we would come in and, and do seminars. And that's of course, where you'd meet all my other vendor pals. And that's where getting to know all those people I traveled with, with the stretch devices. Those were people that I knew those were the best distributors in the country. And they were all over the countries. I was in a plus. I was in the magazine every month, page 32.
Marshall Atkinson
Yeah. And so measuring is so important. Because if you don't measure, how do you know that your improvements are working.
Richard Greaves
And again, I've always wanted to ask for a raise. And I've never had gotten a raise easily ever. And I always did this sort of thing to prove that. Here's what my numbers were before. Here's what my numbers are now. And I know that I taught that to every employee I worked with, and that here's how you're going to get a raise, because they got job descriptions are based on the fact that here's the most important thing in your job title. Number one, this is the one thing for the first screen maker, it was all screens ready for tomorrow's printing. Before end of day, an end of day to me meant you shouldn't really go home or you should work it out with a shop supervisor, that oopsie I don't have this job, but it shouldn't be the job that's scheduled for tomorrow morning. Hello, hello. So people knew what was expected of them. And my love of scheduling. But again, the first thing I did was scheduling and the idea that all the decisions are made beforehand that you've got imprint instructions that explain to the President. This is an old Ross Perot phrase. You take your employees, do they have any choice about what equipment they're using? Did they choose their printing press their platen adhesive, their ink, their emotion, the screens for what Job is next? Again, Ross Perot didn't say that. He just used a different version, but I don't know how many people remember Ross Perot.
Marshall Atkinson
Alright, so one of the things I've always appreciated from you is that you really help people connect the dots by showing people how to do it or there's a story behind it or there's some sort of anecdote or metaphor or whatever. And that's what I really love about you is that isn't that really crazy technical is just a story. Right. So before we end the podcast, I want to hear a couple of the stories, right? Just so we have them right and my, probably my number one Richard Greaves story is the one about the dog on the porch tool at Shirt Lab Fort Worth. So can you share that real quick here?
Richard Greaves
I told that story for as long as I can remember, and I stole it from someone. And I think it has to be someone that influenced me in the quality control. And, but I know I heard it. So if anybody ever can tell me, it wasn't me. I didn't make up this story. But it's a salesman story, because a salesman that calls on Farmer Jones, he comes on a regular basis and knows them. We'll been doing business with a family for years. And he walks up to the house, and he's doing some construction on the front of the house. And the dog blue is moaning a little bit. He walks up to the local Farmer Jones, how you doing? What's the matter with blue? because blue is going Farmer Jones says, dog sitting on a nail. Why God? Why doesn't he get up? Why did they do something doesn't hurt enough. And that is the basis of all troublemaking. But me the screen police, but I am looking for trouble when I come to visit. The screen police is a creation out of my own mind, because when people were stealing tools or not bringing tools back to the tool cabinet, back at shadow graphics in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania, I had the art department create a screen police. And I believe they stole it from somebody. But it was a perfect screen policeman. And it was what the screen police would get you if you didn't return the tools. And so there's some funny drawings on the tool cabinet. And of course, when I started writing my column and screen printing magazine, I use the screen police that if you didn't do certain things correctly, the screen praise would catch you and put you in detention. And of course detention is the worst thing that could happen to a screen printer. That always has an effect. But it's always doesn't that bother you? Now, the dog sitting on a nail, it doesn't bother them enough. And most people don't understand that the cost of doing nothing. Or of course your dad knows when you should be working. And instead you're reading a comic book. Everybody knows your mom is going Shouldn't you get that laundry back upstairs and put away in your drawers. There's always work that should be done. And that's one of the work ethics that you try and create the big signs that I had, that the Art Department made for me again back in the early 80s. What's next? And why are we printing? So those are, those are the stories or the themes that I've carried with me. I've had those themes. When I was running a factory in Los Angeles. Last place, I actually ran a factory in North Hollywood goes to print works. Love those people do. I had shirts printed that said in Spanish. You know, what's the next job? What are we doing next? Why aren't we printing? Those were the themes. We had Spanish language Stein's, it was the one thing I could always point to what's next more shirts must carries us. Because you get if there weren't more shirts to be ready, when Victor would look over and go, oh, there's no shirts, instead of stopping the press. The idea of stopping the press, to me is the worst. Why would anybody stop the press. If you have a taxicab, it doesn't make you any money. When it's sitting in the garage, you need to be out printing, boom, click boom, click boom, click never stop printing. And the reason that people don't print is they don't know what they're supposed to do. Their productivity is reduced because they don't have good job descriptions. They don't have clear instructions on their input instructions. And the job should be stacked up for today. And tomorrow. Like cords of wood. There's no question about what the next job is. Guess what soon as we take this one away, there's the next job. And the
Marshall Atkinson
people that don't. The reason why they're not getting that is because it doesn't hurt enough for them to change.
Richard Greaves
I'm sure everybody has somehow seen people that change tires and put gas in or do that so much anymore in Formula One racing, et cetera. But race car pitstops are what I grew up on, because it's what I could do at the racetrack. I couldn't drive I couldn't really build cars, but I was there and every second counts in the race car. You get one second and that's sometimes how you beat in a horse race or a dog race. We're in a car race. And so everything had to be where it was supposed to be. And everybody practices how to do the pitstop. You can see teams doing pitstops, where they change all four tires in less than two seconds. It takes 16 people to do it. But you see, this is Formula One racing. It isn't in the olden days, when I was racing back in the 70s. You know, it's was a different story, different story, I drawn that out. But I'd have to say that it means a lot to me, is the story of that $20 bill that ties in with the Oh, I didn't think I had to bring the shirt so and so the press didn't have shirts, and it was just Oh, it's just a few shirts, or a shirt got laid on the ground, or was the value of shirts or the value of the printing press, not printing, back in the 80s, a press tying was worth about $120 an hour, I'd say it's now about 350 to $400 an hour, based on inflation, or, you know, whatever the time is, now, I like $300 an hour, because it's easily divided into 60 minutes. And that's $5 a minute that you're not printing, you still have to pay or what you did is you lost $5 A minute by not printing. And so I once was having an argument with one of the employees. And I took a $20 bill out of my pocket these to my left pocket the never ending 20s Because I would get them out of the ATM machine. And so that was my basic here. Get me this said go to the hardware store and it was a $20 bill. But I threw the $20 bill on the floor. And the four people I was talking with could not take their eyes off the $20 bill. I finished up I got them going. But I left the $20 bill in the middle of the floor. And you could see they couldn't stop looking at a $20 bill because that was real money. But the shirts were more importantly, their time wasn't money. And to me, that's what I see the time going out the window, like leaving the window. Shut that door. What are we heating the outside, like morning, Wisconsin, man. You never have the open windows, you know, air conditioning down in Tallahassee Where were you luxuriated? We just had the opposite ends of those spectrums?
Marshall Atkinson
That's right. And it's amazing that people don't think about the actual time or the actual shirts is costing money. I've always said you know, that's not a box of shirts, that's a box of money. And we're always trying to do better. So I think we got one more minute. Real quickly. I know this is an audio podcast. So maybe you can describe your hockey puck masking tape, kind of roll a tape story, and then we'll have to wind it up.
Richard Greaves
So racing background that I've, I've touched on, it helped me to understand almost immediately about off contact, screen tension, blade pressure. These are all things that made perfect sense to me, that was not a confusing thing to me at all. But I remember that people were always impressed with give it some more pressure. And that didn't make any sense to me. You didn't make a racecar go faster by adding more weight to the car. And so it was very easy for me because I come from Wisconsin, and I know that a hockey puck fit inside a three inch hockey puck fit inside a three inch roll of one inch tape. Go out and spend two bucks. I think that's what they're probably gonna cost now, everybody within the sound of my voice. I'm mesmerizing you and saying I want you to go to the store and buy a hockey puck and use a nice clean rule of one inch masking tape and you're gonna find a hockey puck fits inside there. I used to do this in tradeshow seminars using my Black Watch, I would take my watch off and put it in a roll of tape. And then I'd say Okay, anybody come over here, make this watch come out of the roll of tape by pressing down harder with a squeegee. The hockey puck represented a beautiful halftone dot. And the toe roll of tape represented the stencil. The squeegee never touches the shirt. It only ever touches the inside. And once you've come in contact, if you kiss a girl, sometimes you can kiss a little bit harder and there's some passion there. But you know what, if I touch the wall, though it does running into the wall. Give me any closer once the blade brings the stencil in contact with the shirts or whatever substrates you're printing, and if you've never printed on glass or plastic, you know there's no place for the Indigo shooting into the shirt. When you add blade pressure once you've come in contact all you do is bend the blade. Did you set up your automatic press or was it exactly 15 degrees? Sure, but then you let amateurs put more and more blade pressure on it and all that does He's changed the angle of the blade ink. What you need to learn about ink is that it needs to flow but it doesn't flow, the blade is not going to help you. Because you can pound all that wait a second, Marshall helped me push this car over the roll of tape with a hockey puck in it, you can drive a car over a hockey puck in a roll of tape, and it won't make the hockey puck come out of the tape. But little Jennifer, five years old can reach over and lift the roll of tape up with just two little fingers. That's what does screen printing, the ink needs to flow quickly. Instantly. The mesh needs to come in momentary being momentary contact with a t-shirt deposit the ink as it flows through the holes, and then pull itself magically out of the ink film like that. Because you want the multi viscosity and to change viscosity, flow, and then gel in place. Another way to prove this to yourself by a hockey puck is worth $1 To teach every person that you know in the screenshot, everybody should print with a putty knife, go get one of those plastic buddy nights at the dollar store if you're a chicken, but I always carry a three inch putty knife. So that everybody that I teach how to print prints that a putty knife and you see that, oh, it doesn't really change, what you need to do is get the ink moving. So it flows and it flows through the mesh. The job of the screen is to pull itself out of the infield
Marshall Atkinson
and a low tension screen like walls around and won't allow you to do that. That's why you want a higher tension screen. So it snaps back up faster leaving that ache right where it's supposed to be.
Richard Greaves
The great lesson from Don Newman is that you take your index finger from one hand, and you move the skin on the back of your other hand, you'll see it moves quite fully fluidly. Now you tighten up your hand like a fist, and you're gonna see oh, the skin doesn't move on the back of my hand very well at all. That's done knew in 1982 1983. And I've given him credit every time I tell that story, which it has to be now 10s of hundreds of times. Because it's the basics of what Newman taught the world. Everybody knows tight screenprint better. But why is that? It's because the mesh does not roll in front of the fabric human being, you'll see that your skin pops back, like pulling the string on a bone arrow. Just imagine that your skin is like the bow or the string and a bow and arrow, and it strings back. And that blurs the image, especially if it doesn't pull itself out of the ink film already. Here's the four minute answer to a 32nd question.
Marshall Atkinson
Well, that's great. And so I really appreciate your time today and sharing your life's journey and those stories with us today. If someone wants to learn more about what you do, or maybe how you can help them, Richard, what is the best way to contact you?
Richard Greaves
I want people to just call me be brave. I want people to call me. And you'd call me at 646-807-8580. And so it'll ring in my pocket. And if I'm busy and I can't talk to you, I have a magic device that takes your message. You could also send me an email at rgreaves@gmail.com. I look forward especially if you're looking for something to read. I am library screenprint.
Marshall Atkinson
He does have the Library of Alexandria in his house. It's true. All right. Well, hey, well, thanks for your time today. Richard, really appreciate you. Thanks a lot.
Richard Greaves
It's a lot of fun. Thank you.
Marshall Atkinson
Well, that's our show today. Thanks for listening. And don't forget to subscribe so you can stay up to date on the latest Success Stories episodes. have any suggestions for future guests or topics? send them my way and Marshall and Marshall atkinson.com And we'll see you next time.