Success Stories Ep 76 - "Learn to be Great with Nate"

We have a real treat for you on today's Success Stories podcast.  How do you go from working as a new hire in the screen room to working all the way up to running a massive production facility printing millions of shirts…to starting your own small print shop and beginning your own entrepreneurial journey?

Today we’re talking with Nate Leber with Leber Design and Print about that subject, as he’s the one that did that.  Nate took a career’s worth of skill and understanding to build his own boutique shop in Grove City, Ohio. 

We’ll chat with Nate about the lessons he’s learned along the way and where he’s going now.  So get ready for an incredible discussion.

Transcript

Marshall Atkinson 
We have a real treat for you on today's Success Stories podcast. How do you go from working as a new hire in the screening room to working all the way up to running a massive production facility printing millions of T shirts, to starting your own small print shop and beginning your own entrepreneurial journey. Today we're talking with Nate Weber with Leber Design in print about that same subject. And he's the one that did all that may took a careers worth of skill and understanding to build his own boutique shop in Grove City, Ohio. We'll chat with Nate about the lessons he's learned along the way, and where he's going now. So get ready for an incredible discussion with Nate. So Nate, welcome to the Success Stories podcast.

Nate Leber 
Hey, Marshall, I'm excited to be here.

Marshall Atkinson 
Yeah, I'm excited to be here with you as well, you know, I'm a big fan of yours, because we see things a lot of like, so, and we've had many discussions about tons of topics. And I think getting it all down into a podcast is gonna be a lot of fun. Because I think we're simpatico.

Marshall Atkinson 
just thinking back, you know, I met you, when we did our first Shirt Lab in Columbus, how can you help Tom and I and build that you would like to host shop that kind of scores away with where we should go and what we should do. So that was our first Nate lever encounter. I think

Nate Leber 
I was probably poking around in the weeds a little bit before then. But yeah, definitely. That was one of the first time I met a lot of people that I looked up into at the end in the industry at that time. You know,

Marshall Atkinson 
like a lot of folks in the shop just as a worker bee right. So, you know, way back when, right? You started in the screen room, right?

Nate Leber 
Yeah, I started, I got hired on at a company called airy sportswear, which is very large company. And literally, my job was just reclaimed. That was all I did for eight hour shifts all day long was reclaimed screens. Okay, so

Marshall Atkinson 
that's not a very glamour filled position. So how does that get the bug for the industry into somebody?

Nate Leber 
Keep in mind, too, this is during the recession. So I was a,

Marshall Atkinson 
so this is 2009 10.

Nate Leber 
Yeah, eight, nine, right in that region. And, you know, I just got out of college, of course, we got told you know that we're going to be great going out of college and like little do you know, you don't really know anything yet. So I think I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder that I wasn't thrilled when I couldn't find work very easily. But I've always been gritty in the sense that I didn't want to fail at anything. So I took even this position that I wasn't truly thrilled with. And I was like, Well, you know, whatever. I'm just going to be the best Reclaimer this company has ever seen. And I really dove in to try and truly do my best on something even though it wasn't a place I wanted to stay in that position forever. But But I, I decided I'm gonna work hard. I'm the best screen Reclaimer they've ever seen. And let's see what happens.

Marshall Atkinson 
Right. And you've got a degree in printmaking, right? Something like that.

Nate Leber 
Yeah, I have one in printmaking, and one in fine arts. And so yeah, I knew I could probably do a little bit more than that, and had hoped for more than that. But something that has really carried me far throughout the years, is that I just, I didn't want to fail at all. So I wanted to do my best no matter what, and I knew when I if I could do that, and the little things, when I got those opportunities, I was gonna, you know, bust down the door then, and really try and show my worth. So no matter what position I got put into, I was willing to move around and be flexible, and learn and not. I knew I didn't know anything. And so I was willing to start getting to know people and learning the processes. And I don't think I don't think I was quite aware that a lot of people don't always do that aren't flexible enough to do that. And so it put me in a very unique position with the ownership of that company. And all of a sudden they realize like, Wow, we got this, this kid that we can mold can kind of throw projects that and so, you know, that's how it all began.

Marshall Atkinson 
Right? And so So you kind of moved out of the screen room did you go and become a printer? I moved around

Nate Leber 
to almost every position in that company. So I think if I remember right, this is the order it went in. I believe I went from reclaim to cutting and setting up vinyl art for like sportswear jerseys, then I think I went to staging production and shipping, manual printing, auto printing back around then to the screen room and managing the screen room. Then I went from there to embroidery digitizing Yeah, I was a digitizer for a while. And I think that's the whole journey in that order, something like that. And, you know, the really key thing that served me well, was that every single position, they would throw me into it, generally, I would get put in there because someone quit. Someone quit a job. But the owners had a lot of confidence in me that I could go in, and they could give me a little bit of knowledge. And I would work really hard and just beg for information from anybody I could to actually find out what I needed to know and level up. Whatever department I was in, so a lot of it was just trial and error. And

Marshall Atkinson 
he loved it. And he loved it better than you found it.

Nate Leber 
I don't think they would have kept moving me on if I wouldn't have in fact, I would have probably got let go. So that was always my goal was to try and level it up in that company grew a lot in the time I was there. So it was a real exciting time.

Marshall Atkinson 
So yeah, so here's what they said, Hey, let's get Nate natal do it. So you move from Aries to another shop, right?

Nate Leber 
Yep, that company was called ICs. And I was the plant manager there for a little over five years. And they were a true retail fashion contract decorator. And not that it really matters. But to name drop for context, the companies we work for included Abercrombie and Fitch, express, pink, American Eagle, assenza, Lane Bryant, so it was definitely a different level than I'd been exposed to that time coming from more of a true spirit wear shop. So it's so small brands. Yes, absolutely. Yep.

Marshall Atkinson 
The mall brands, okay. And printing. And I know a little bit about printing retail and the fact that everything has to be completely perfect. And it has to match the last thing you did that it shipped two weeks ago or whatever. And if it doesn't match, you're in trouble. Right? So this is where you really need dialed in processes and have everything exactly perfect. And this is probably where you honed a lot of your skills. Am I right?

Nate Leber 
Absolutely. This is truly where learning process and learning team management really evolved for me. And that part of my career really took off. Every everything with those brands is exactly like you say it has to match. One of the biggest things with those retail brands that that most people if they've never done it that just aren't aware of is that it follows a strategy called domestic Chase, which is these brands do these, these short term market reads have different graphics to see how they're doing. If they're doing really, really well, in 24 to 48 hours notice they're going to drop the skews on you. And you've got to roll them out. And you not only have to print them but they have to be full ticketed polybag they have to have all labels put on them. And they have to be shipped to flagship stores. So they can literally come out of the box and go into a gondola and be perfectly displayed and display ready from there. So it's an intense process. And so if your process isn't good and and extremely dialed in, you will get what's called a chargeback. Because contract printing. So the chargebacks almost always are three to four times what you would even get paid for the print, you start getting chargebacks you're gonna be out of business really, really quickly. So your process has to be just through the roof good. And that's where we started really tracking every part of the process. Recording every piece of information that you wouldn't think would be relevant. We recorded it to try and match back just perfectly every time to what we may have ran 234 weeks before because now all of a sudden the brand is calling us going this particular SKU did really good. We need it in London or Hong Kong in a matter of just weeks time.

Marshall Atkinson 
So this is where we have found some a lot of alignment because I'm all about measuring. I'm all about understanding how things tick. And I got into doing that because I was a former Art director that got put in charge of production, what do I know about production. And it's the end. So I started with what I hung my hat on was the whole idea of sustainability, which is all and this is where I found Lean Six Sigma, that's that's kind of how I started with it with a little bit about eliminating waste and eliminating do overs and, and that within all of the processes. And so that really helps me understand how to do things better by looking at things from a 30,000 foot view. And understanding that, even though every order that we do is completely different, how we do them should be exactly the same every time. And if you build that engine, then it's really easy to do production.

Nate Leber 
Absolutely. So it was exactly that figuring out what that process looked like for me. And it started, there was two portions of it, the first half of it was, I didn't know what I didn't know. And I couldn't begin to teach other people or lead other people without knowing that. So initially, when I first got there, I would spend the whole shift with my team, just getting through the day. And then I would spend either before that shift, or after that shift almost an entire extra shift, figuring out those processes. Because at that time, I'd never done high density printing, I don't even know if I'd ever printed with puff at certainly had never done glitter I had never done high end simulated process. So a lot of it was was going back to what I learned to ares that grit, that trial and error that that determination to succeed no matter what. But then, of course, halfway through that it changed. Because you can know everything you want for yourself. But you can't do everything yourself. So how do you now take that and lead a team and so it was creating the process of okay, now I personally knew how to do what we were trying to do. But now how do I make that into a process so they can replicate it every time. And maybe just as important or more importantly than that was also becoming a good leader of people in myself so that they actually want to work hard for me. So like, maybe I give them all the information. But Nate was a really bad manager at the beginning of that. And I don't think anybody wanted to work for me, even though they knew I was a really good printer. Well, great. So. So it was really a a two stage process and not only learning a technical part, but then learning truly how to lead and manage people.

Marshall Atkinson 
Right? Yeah, I went through that same thing with me. Like when I started managing people, I was awful.

Nate Leber 
Yeah. And you like,

Marshall Atkinson 
there should be, I think there's a no jerk rule in business for jerks don't want to work for I mean, people don't want to work for jerks, right? So you gotta like, you gotta just be nice. And learn how to talk to people and get your way. And that's, that's the challenge. And I think a lot of people get promoted in this industry, because they're the best salesperson or the best printer or whatever. But they know how to manage people, because I've never done that. And that's a skill, you have to develop just like everything else.

Nate Leber 
Absolutely, that that was the most transformational part of my journey was was making myself a really high level technical printer. But then flipping that into how do you teach and create process for others and, and that predominantly came from not only recording a lot of information and making sure every single variable that we possibly could track was tracked. But then on top of it, becoming a good person, in my own way to actually make people want to work with me, instead of them just working for me and burning up their energy and maybe their relationships getting there.

Marshall Atkinson 
And did you take some classes or read some books? Or how did you acquire that knowledge?

Nate Leber 
Really, I got I was just frustrated after a couple years, then I was really burnt out. I couldn't figure out why is everyone so lazy? Why doesn't ever Anyone else want to work as hard as I do? Why doesn't anyone have all the the skills I thought I had, that were superior to everybody else coming along. And then I read a book that you and I both love, Extreme Ownership. And I realized wasn't the problem. It wasn't that they were millennials. It wasn't the owner of the company. It wasn't anybody other than me. And when I started changing myself and making myself a good leader and a good manager, everything changed and all of a sudden work got pretty fun again, and I wasn't feeling burnout.

That's my favorite book.

It's it's definitely up there for me, that's for sure it is the transformation. No book.

Marshall Atkinson 
Alright, so what made you, you know, you're doing all this stuff and you're having success? And you know, and even though it's a grind, you know, I know from my career, it's that pressure, sometimes there's a lot of fun, because it's amazing what you could pull off.

Nate Leber 
When did you just say, You know what?

Marshall Atkinson 
I need to like, do my own thing. When did that when did that inspiration hit, and then how long until you actually pull the trigger and did it.

Nate Leber 
So there was sort of a twofold side to that story. One was, I think I've always had a little bit of an entrepreneurial spirit, I started like a painting company at one point in a summer when I was in college. And I was flipping stuff on eBay when I was younger before then. So I always was kind of interested in that, in my mind, I always thought I either wanted to own a share of a company, or potentially own a portion of a large printing facility. But I honestly wasn't super confident with myself my 20s. And thought, well, this will happen in my 40s. So so that part of it, it wasn't that the seed was there, but it wasn't really ready for it yet. And then a right around 2015, that domestic Chase program that I was talking about earlier, we started seeing that really changed those larger fashion brands, they kept what they called locker stock, always here in the US. So they're really large bulk orders would get sent to overseas shops, because it was cheaper, and they're what they would consider their small orders. 1020 50,000 or so shirts, would get chased here in the US. And that locker stock, they stopped bringing it to the United States, they no longer were storing it, warehousing it and that was a big red flag to me that, hey, something shifting and changing, you know, fast fashion, and those sorts of things was starting to come around. And, and I knew that was a red flag to me. And so I remember going to the owner of that company and going, Hey, I think there's there's some unique opportunities here to maybe bring our expertise and our quality, but maybe to some different types of brands and different ways. And he just went Nate like now. Now, this has been really successful. What we're doing here, we're sticking with this year crazy. Well, I was crazy, but just crazy enough that I also at the same time, I was like, You know what? Let me see this through a little bit more. So I actually wrote a formal business plan. Yay. That to three people that at the time were like, to me the most successful business owners I've met. And I mean, so this was I was like, 2625 26, very young. And I wanted to give it to them and just have them, I thought they would just rush it, they would just poke holes in it and say, You don't know what you're talking about. You didn't think of this, here's what you didn't think of. And I took it to these three people. And all three of them said, Are you sure your numbers are right? I said, Yeah, I know, I know, the numbers, the the math as far as the consumables and on that and does all right, because I'm tracking it already at this big shop, I got to play with my numbers already. And knew that that part was right. And it's a well, if you're, you know, that's good. Well, this will work. And then I was like a deer in the headlights moment. I'm going to have to do this. So there was and so yeah, I ended up starting my own shop in the evenings and weekends after I was still working at the big shop, because I knew like back was kind of up his whole like time to put your money where your mouth is Nate and actually see if, if it follows through or not. So I ended up diving into it way earlier than I ever thought I would. But it's been the best ride ever. And I cannot imagine doing anything different. And when was that, Nate? That will be let's see. April of 2016 is when we were truly Incorporated. And then I think we moved the press in August of 2016 is when it was okay. So yeah, it all the business plan I believe got written in February, and maybe January, February. So it all happened in about nine month span. Right.

Marshall Atkinson 
Okay. And so you started off with a manual, right, a manual press.

Nate Leber 
We started off with just one manual. In fact, it was only a forehead manual lever. So pretty, pretty limited capabilities. And we went from that to six head manual and then we added a eight color auto. And along with that, we added a couple of numbers. Are you machines, and then we just got some more real big TGM embroidery machines here just a few weeks ago. So we've been growing ever since it's been really fun. But overall, it's still a very small shop compared to the contract style.

Marshall Atkinson 
Yeah, and so your focus is Who's your ideal customer needs.

Nate Leber 
Our focus at the very core of it is those people who want really high quality and high end techniques, you know, they may be brands or companies that they, they don't know where to source higher end garments from and they're not sure just yet where to go to get those higher end print techniques, the high end simulated processes, the high densities and things like that. And that's even the same with our embroidery, we do a lot of stuff that people think is chain stitching, we do a lot of puff embroidery, a lot of the higher end techniques, that's what we still do. So people who need that higher end touch, but they aren't necessarily sure where to go or get it, it's really easy for us, when we find out that's what they value, or that's what they need to say, Well, hey, here's what we did before for these brands. And if you need that, we can now do that for you.

Marshall Atkinson 
So you wrote a business plan, and you know who your ideal customer is, right? So and we're gonna things I know about you You worked really you work and still work really hard on dialing in your perfect ideal customer. So for people that are listening out there who try to like, I'm just anybody wants a shirt, I'll print for him, you know, the phone rings, I'm happy kind of people, why is dialing in that perfect customer is such an important thing, they

Nate Leber 
really figuring that out is what has allowed us to continue to grow. Initially, just like just about any shop, I wasn't very defined yet with who we were really trying to serve. And so just like yours before with figuring out the process of printing and dialing that and this was now figuring out the process of being an entrepreneur and dialing that in. So it was just an extension of that for me. But but it initially we didn't have that nearly as focused or defined. And so we spent a lot of time chasing things that, you know, not that we didn't maybe like, technically, technically execute well for the customer. But really, they didn't need what we could offer. And we weren't showing our value to them either. So dialing that in and defining that was huge. And I still talk about this with a lot of people, you know what that means and what that looks like. And part of it is knowing your metrics, the other part of it is knowing the demographics of who you're trying to serve. But the other part of it is making sure that your customers their mission, and their core values align with yours. And that makes a huge difference in work you want to do and who you serve. And also, once you have that clearly defined, it's really easy to know who to say no to. So you don't end up spending so much time like I did chasing dead end roads that even though they might be good people, we weren't a great fit and a great value to serve them and should have sent them to someone who was.

Marshall Atkinson 
So people have a really hard time saying no, in or, you know, that's we're not in alignment, or we're you know, I could get that cheaper down the street you know, you hear me times we've heard that right. And why is it important really to kind of know your customer and stick your guns on this stuff?

Nate Leber 
Well, like I was talking about earlier, keeps you from chasing all these rabbit trails of everything else that keeps you defined and focused. Whereas, you know, even though we've had good growth here, I probably could have grown to this level twice as fast. Had I have been as defined and clearly focused as I was or as I am now if I was this way five years ago, we would already be here and be looking for growth and others. So it gets you to the goal a lot faster. I think just you know on a personal note, the burnout and fatigue. It saves on that it saves your mind and your energy to be able to really focus on those who are perfect fit for you. And that's to me when it gets really cool is When you do find those customers that you know, you can perfectly serve, because you have so defined how you can do that for them. And they align with your values, that all of a sudden it becomes really fun and collaborative. Because not only do you know that, there's no other shop that can really do exactly what you can do for that customer. But they know that too. And so it becomes really fun and gets you out of this kind of commodity mindset that a lot of shops are in of constantly fighting against the next shop down the road and fighting for 10 cents here and 10 cents there. And all of a sudden you have a true relationship. They don't want to go anywhere else. And you don't want to work with any other kinds of people either, because it's just a perfect fit.

Marshall Atkinson 
Yeah, and then they kill you to see like on Facebook, these people who post you know, check out my pricing, where are you at on this money? I'm like, How come these people don't know that? And it's because they don't know the metrics. They don't know their customer? They don't know. They're not in alignment yet. Right? They're so early in the process, even though you might have been in business for 10 years, right? They just haven't figured this stuff out. And it's just here's the funny part. No matter how much you say, they won't listen. It's like they have to arrive at the answer themselves to go, oh, maybe I don't know, something I should ask. Right? That's just the crazy thing, don't you think?

Nate Leber 
Absolutely. I mean, everybody's on their own journey and at their own pace, and each at a different place. So you know, it always when you see someone that you're ahead of in the journey, you always look back. They're like, Oh, geez, like, I can't believe they're doing this. But I'm sure there's things that I'm doing now, that are that way too. And I hope to continue leveling up. You know, one thing that always served me really well, I talked about, you know, just being gritty and hard working when I was younger, and that was great. And that was part of it. But the other thing that really has always served me well, that probably took me further than that is I have never burned a lot of bridges, whatever companies I've left, and wherever I've gone, I've never burned a lot of bridges and always stayed in contact with a lot of people and kept that network and with that network has also been I don't know, I know that I don't know things. And I'm not afraid to admit that. And so I think people are afraid to look dumb a lot of times, like, I just reach out to people, you know, people like you and a lot of other people that you and I know like I've just never, I don't know, I've never been that afraid to just reach out to him directly. And, you know, to say, hey, what am I messing up? What am I doing wrong? And and when you do that, you start building that network and all of a sudden, all the things you don't know, you start bouncing them off these other people and these other ideas. And they'll tell you what you don't know, you know, Richard, Richard greaves, I remember I met him, because I was young pup at a liquidation auction. And I saw him there. And I'd seen this guy this pictures in magazines, oh my gosh. And I was really scared. I went up to him. And I'm like, Hey, I know you don't know who I am. And I'm this young punk kid. But let me shake your hand, you know. And so, in most everybody in this industry is really nice and collaborative. And if you just reach out to them, they'll help you. And so I've gotten lucky to know a lot of people. And I'm lucky that I wasn't aware of myself enough to overthink and not ask for help and go up and extend a handshake to people that I didn't know.

Marshall Atkinson 
Yeah. And it's fun. Raising your hand and saying, Hey, I need some help. Before we recording this podcast today, I was talking on the phone with somebody about something that it was obvious, but not obvious. And I won't go into all the details because it's unrelated thing, but it was like, Hey, I don't know about what give me some What am I missing? And I got the answer. Right and took a page full of notes. It's right here next to me right now. And now I know. Now I know the answer. Right. So I think that's a really good thing. And kudos, you for doing that. So let's talk about the future. Right. So crystal ball time, right. So I want you to think about what's exciting to you about the industry and where do you see your shop in a couple of years, like what are you moving to wherever they're in their horizon, right is where your goals are. Right? So give us some little

Nate Leber 
peek at that. Well, I'll start with with internally here first where I see that going will probably come close to doubling size in the next couple of years. And that'll specifically be a big portion of that will be an embroidery, there's some unique things that we can do here in easier ways than most shops would be able to do. And I think as a result of that, we'll probably end up getting a lot of work from shops that don't have embroidery capabilities that we can help them with without them having to take on the headache of having to invest in the equipment or, or learn some unique things that maybe they just don't have enough people yet take on internally. So I think that's part of where we're going here. We're gonna continue to test things here, I'm always testing new products out and my team does a ton of that sales. So anything new that comes up, we're constantly testing. And so I think that's kind of like what we're going to do here is continue to test continue to grow and continue to dive into new products. But you know, what gets me excited now and where I think our industry is heading, and it is in conjunction with what we're doing here. A on the print side, I think, some kind of a weird combination of DTF DTG, hybrid printing is probably going to come about I do think there is going to be the day where every screen printing press, I don't think screen printing is completely gone away. But every press will have some kind of a digital printhead capability in it. And I mean, we're talking right now, it's only on these massive machines, I think that will, they will change that and get it dialed in enough that it will be even on small machines, and maybe on some will even like a manual style press. So I think things headed in that direction.

Marshall Atkinson 
Well, you know, just think, one too long ago, were a calculator cost $6,000. Right now it comes with your phone.

Nate Leber 
Absolutely. So I think I do think that's going to happen in apparel decorating. In conjunction with that, you get the art side, which to me, again, is really cool of AI is starting to move in. And we really I mean, I was talking with a tech guy today about that, you know, truly is the wild west on that, because there's really no regulation or any true like barriers or walls put up yet, but it's really cool. You know a lot about this, and there's a lot going on with it. And it is literally, you know, exponentially expanding in size daily, the amount of data that's going in, and the solutions this is going to create is really interesting, I think a lot of art will get moved back to the print shops, whereas like right now a lot of gets outsourced or sent overseas, I think it may, a lot of it may come back. And in conjunction with that I think a lot of apparel production could come back to being done in the US again, although most likely, which this isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just a unique difference, compared to say the 90s and early 2000s, the quantity or volume in the run sizes that we saw is going to change I do think that's going to continue to decrease. You know, we've all seen seen the run sizes decrease as people want more customization want more unique value for their brands or smaller brands. So I think we'll continue to see a trend in that. But I think offers a lot of opportunities to bring interesting things back to the US that maybe in the past 15 years, has actually moved away from being done here.

Marshall Atkinson 
So do you have a DTF printer yet? Are you outsourcing that

Nate Leber 
we are also we don't have any DTG we do outsource all of our DTF and we do quite a bit of that already. Um, DTG I have some friends that I get to play with there's quite a bit and continue to push the limitations of that. So that one's really interesting, although then we'll see how it shakes out. I don't know how much DTF is going to disrupt it because that's really cool, too. And it has its own set of variables with it. And I think always with where I think our industry is headed is I take a moderate approach that I don't think I don't get so deep into saying, Well, this is how it's going to be in this machine here. This style here. I think it's going to be a hybrid of everything. Similar to what m&r is doing right now to where it truly is becoming a hybrid. I think you'll continue to see that trend on an even greater level, everything starts mixing together. And it's not so much one or the other everybody in their separate silos.

Marshall Atkinson 
Yeah, and I'm so enamored with the artificial intelligence in the things right and Chad GPT mid journey of course, you know, I'm doing a lot of craziness there. And as the art director and me, like, you know, we're talking about the beginning of your career. You know how I got into this was when I was working on my master's degree in architecture, I was designing shirts to pay For my school, and did everything by hand, and the personal computer came along with Photoshop, and changed the course of my life, because I'm like, this is the most amazing thing ever, I think I'll just do this. And so that's why I'm not an architect, right, I'm in the t shirt biz. And I see the AI as that same level of disruption where, you know, and in, a lot of folks are really scared of it. And the swear, you know, the art doesn't have a soul, or you didn't create it, or whatever excuse they're putting out there. But as an art director that had to produce the most amazing t shirt ever, a dozen more times a day, at least, right? It's really hard to come up with stuff, it's really hard to come up with a new way of doing it. But what's really great about this AI stuff is that you don't have to create the whole thing, you can just create one little piece, or a background, or a little texture, or a little whatever. And then you can use your same taste, and artistic and creative skill and way of thinking about stuff. And you can use these tools as a way to iterate and create faster. But you have to learn the vocabulary you laugh, you have to learn how to play the piano, so to speak, right? And so it's really hard, because, you know, I like mid journey. And that's kind of my thing I've been playing with. You don't get what's what's in my head is not what mid journey gives me. Right? Absolutely. Which is that, which is the really frustrating thing. But sometimes it's the really cool thing, because I'll get something I didn't imagine. And it's even better. And, and the other thing, I think that all this AI stuff is going to do, Nate, it's going to lower the barriers for people to be creative. And for people to express themselves. So they can create, and they can do stuff. And I think what we're going to see is a creative spike, where people are going to, I just did this cool thing, I want that on a t shirt, or I want that as part of my logo, or I want to use that in something, right. And there are going to be people who know how to utilize this stuff and actually make it better. And there's other people who just poopoo it all day, and they don't, they're not going to be on board until they're forced to and then they're gonna be playing catch up. That's kind of like, how I see it. I don't know if you agree with that.

Nate Leber 
But, what I like a lot about any technology or anything that's new is if you can cast aside the fear and dive into the unknown, you open up the door for there to be a ton of potential possibilities. And as long as you stay in that mindset of fear, you keep that door closed. But as soon as you get out of that all of a sudden, here comes this world of opportunity open to you. And to me, that's very exciting. And I'm really excited to be alive right now during this time. Because I do think what we are living through right now is just as transformational as we're probably more than than the automobile or electricity or anything like that. So, yeah, I don't know 100%, where it's headed or how it's going to look. But I think as long as I stay in that abundance mindset of looking for the opportunity, I think, you know, we'll be able to find it and be able to adjust and learn and grow along with it. You know, maybe, maybe I'm just a millennial that I'm I'm an easy adopter for technology. I don't know. But you know, that's how I view it right now.

Marshall Atkinson 
Yeah, I'm old. I'm an old guy. I remember when the cell phones came out, and I refuse to get one. Like, I'm not getting a phone. Oh, I don't want anybody calling me. So, you know, it I think if you think about the ages of man, you know, the Bronze Age, Iron Age, whatever, right? We're at the cusp of the artificial intelligence age, right, where we're, it's just, we've been using AI for a long time. You know, you just don't realize that, you know, when you take a picture with your cell phone, you know, that's AI, when you Google something that's AI, you know, when you do when you buy a plane ticket, that's AI, you know, so we've been using it for a while we just didn't really realize it and now it's really like squarely in your face. And there's people who there's some people that are threatened, I don't know but but it's like one of these things where, for us as creators and us as entrepreneurs, us as people, I think they're trying to do something with it. I think it's such an exciting time. And then you take That and that like, how am I going to screenprint? That? How am I going to make a transfer with that? How am I going to use that with embroidery? Right? How am I going to do these different things? How can I now a really great experiment to do is just to mid journey up some textures, these textures can be applied to stuff, right, and now you don't just have flat, boring font, right? Now you've got a little sparkle in there somewhere. And a long time ago, I used to have to have a flatbed scanner, and I would take a Ziploc bag, and I would stuff it full of macaroni or candy or leaves or twigs or grass, or like whatever. And I would scan it, and then I would bring it into Photoshop, and I would posterize it and play with it, whatever. And that became a texture for a background or something. Because that sparked up the image. Now it's 30 seconds with a commitment, word prompts, and I get it in his better, right, because it's you know, not that whole, that whole process that took so long. And I think that's really going to help us out. And it's really going to be exciting. So right now this is this podcast comes out of course 2023. Right. 2025. Will, that's two years from now we'll look back at this and go, boy, did we miss it? Right? Because this stuff moves so fast, right? That's gonna be fun to see what's around the corner.

Nate Leber 
Absolutely, the data that's being compiled, the amount of it right now is absolutely unreal. You know, the cool thing that I've always loved about the apparel side, and maybe this is the printmaking Fine Art blend is that it's not only the beauty of the art, but the function of the t shirt. And so I think with AI, becoming more recently accessible now to almost everyone, it will make it so that we're gonna see a lot cooler graphics get put on a lot more T shirts, whereas maybe before it wasn't so easily accessible for people to get really unique art. And so we're gonna get that beautiful blend, I think a form and function and see a lot more, you know, cool stuff around us. And so the fine arts can be excited for that,

Marshall Atkinson 
right? And just think how DTF and DTG are like, so ready for Dataguard? Right? I mean, there's no halftones, you just print it, you're done, applied to the t-shirt, you know, through the process. And I think you know, that is really going to take off in screenprint. And of course, you got to reduce it down to a couple of colors. And so that is going to I think is going to feel very limiting to a lot of people.

Nate Leber 
Yeah, I think I think you're absolutely right, it's going to continue to progress and grow. And yeah, I really do think screenprinting, DTF, DTG is all going to meld into some kind of a semi hybrid thing where, you know, we might end up only printing under bases or something like that in the long run. But I do think it'd be really fun and really unique and I don't think the craftsmanship is going to go away from it. It's just going to be different. Well, great. Well, hey,

Marshall Atkinson 
Nate, thank you so much for sharing your story of success with us today. What is the best way to contact you as someone wants to learn more about what you do? Or maybe how you can help them?

Nate Leber 
One or two ways that are really easy one you can reach out to us on social, all our social handles are Leber Design in print, or you can send my team an email direct and that is the word create at Leber design.com. And if you need to talk to me directly. They'll make sure that they get you in touch with me.

Marshall Atkinson
Well, thanks, Nate.