Success Stories Ep 103 - "Building the Future with the Promotional Ninja"

If there's one person who is quietly churning out amazing entrepreneurial ideas to help people in the decorate apparel and promotional marketing spaces, it is our guest today, Tony Wavering. 

Tony is fantastic at gathering information, analyzing the situation, and then building something that capitalizes on an opportunity to help and serve others to make their work smoother. 

He is absolutely not afraid to put in the work and get the best people to help him along the way. On today's Success Stories podcast, we'll speak to Tony regarding what he's built, what he's building, and probably something about the future. You aren't going to want to miss this episode.

Transcript

Marshall Atkinson 
If there's one person who is quietly churning out amazing entrepreneurial ideas to help people in the decorate apparel and promotional marketing spaces, it is our guest today, Tony wavering. Tony is fantastic at gathering information, analyzing the situation, and and then building something that capitalizes on an opportunity to help and serve others, to make their work smoother. He is absolutely not afraid to put it in the work and get the best people to help him along the way. On today's success stories podcast, we'll speak to Tony regarding what he's built, what he's building, and probably something about the future, you aren't going to want to miss this episode. So Tony, welcome to the success stories podcast.

Tony Wavering 
Marshall, thanks so much for having me looking forward to being here.

Marshall Atkinson
Yeah, and we go way back. How long have I known you? I feel like I've known you for 20 years man.

Tony Wavering 
Yeah, I remember emailing you back to my 2014 and I was in Bangalore, India, looking for some answers to questions. And you, were super responsive and getting right back in touch with me as soon as I reached out. So thanks for doing that.

Marshall Atkinson 
Yeah, and I've printed shirts for you, and we've done a bunch of stuff over the years, so it's kind of fun.

Tony Wavering 
Yeah, right!

Marshall Atkinson 
And now, you're on the show.

Tony Wavering 
I'm excited to be here. A little intimidated, Success Stories Podcast, I don't know.

Marshall Atkinson 
We're all good right? So now, you're like the quiet professional, you're like the Navy SEAL Team Six of the industry.

Tony Wavering 
Quite right. Yeah, under marketed, and we spent a lot of time focused on, like, building great products, and still have a lot to learn in terms of marketing and distributing them.

Marshall Atkinson 
Right. So let's start with the first question. So in this industry, there seems to be two types of people, those who want to capitalize on their creativity and artistic skills and another group that sees the entrepreneurial and business side, which is, you right? Can you elaborate on how you started your business journey from then until now? Like, how did you get into this industry? You know?

Tony Wavering 
Yeah, absolutely. I guess, to start with, I first really became interested in being an entrepreneur and owning a business back when I was 10 years old. So remind rewind the clock back to like 1995 and I grew up in rural Missouri, and I was fortunate to grow up in a family business environment. My mom and dad owned four really small like gift and craft shops. And back in 1995 there was this really crazy thing going on in retail called Beanie Babies. So big fad Beanie Babies represented about 10% of eBay's volume back in like 95, 96 and we were selling Beanie Babies at our stores. We were buying them for $2.50 and we're selling them for like, 5, 6, 7, $10 and while this is really exciting that like, we could get a product in and sell out of it by the next day and make really good margins on it, it was really frustrating to me. And it was frustrating to me because I was using the computer at the age of 10 and using the internet at that age, and seeing that these Beanie Babies were selling on eBay and other places online for many multiples of what we were getting for these items in the store, they were selling for 20, 50, $100 a piece. And so I was so frustrated that we were within the walls of our small business getting so little compared to like the national market price of these items that I took it upon myself to, like, maximize profit of Beanie Baby sales. And over the next three years, I'd sell more than 10,000 Beanie Babies. I'd routinely make trips to the local grocery store on my bike with a box of Beanie Babies on top, where I was mailing out Beanie Babies by the dozen, and so that sort of, like left a really great taste in my mouth from from the age of, like, 10 to 13 and running a business and doing something different and bringing my unique talents to a business. And that kept me, like, really interested in business throughout high school. It made me want to pursue an undergraduate degree in business. So I went to the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, and in 2003 and in about like 2005 I was looking around and seeing a lot of students selling shirts to sorties, fraternities, student groups. And so I. I also decided that I wanted to sell shirts as a side hustle to help create some extra money for beer and fun. And, you know, sort of did that for a few years in college, in 2007 I, you know, decided to join delay consulting as a management consultant. Worked there for six years. Did M & A  consulting performance improvements consulting, and ultimately became dissatisfied being a consultant, because it didn't feel very entrepreneurial. And so I left Deloitte in 2012 and decided I wanted to create an online distributor business called bidPress. And that's really where we first met and and the basic concept was, you know, I became familiar with print shops when I was in college. They have all this extra capacity. They can really benefit from being connected to buyers, either through students or other types of third parties. And so the idea was to create, sort of like a kayak.com needs custom inc.com, type of business where and buyers could buy decorated apparel from an online marketplace and bidPress could route orders to different decorators that would love to decorate for them. And I moved to India to build our website. You know, I outsourced myself because I thought that that would be the best way to reduce risk in the business. And over about two years, I spent about six months in India working next to a team of really talented software engineers there who built our website. It turned out that like while we had some orders from Google and other like large tech companies, we were never really good at marketing or distributing that business and getting in orders as we had initially hoped, but with bidPress, even though the online sales channel wasn't working too well, I acquired some really nice Fortune 100 types of customers that wanted to buy large amounts of decorated apparel from me, and so started to run bidPress or as a traditional distributorship, is run, instead of running it like an E commerce company. And so I ran bidPress until about 2017 and in about 2015 my most important client at the time, who represented about 95% of my revenue. So scary percent of revenue to have tied up in one account, they started to ask me for recommendations on hard goods. They wanted 2500 insulated tote bags. I remember thinking, keep in mind like I'm working for myself, by myself. I don't have someone's shoulder to tap on to say hey. Like, what's a good supplier or tote bag from a supplier to put in front of my most important client. So I'd use tools like Sage and ESP, to search for products. And I remember seeing over 10,000 results when I'd search for insulated tote bags, and none of the results had like product reviews or product ratings, and it made me really do want to pull my hair out, because I didn't feel like I had the information available to me to help me make a good choice recommendation for my client. And so in 2017 I started Promo Hunt, and Promo Hunt goal was to make it easier for promotional product distributors and decorators to find really great products to recommend and sell to their clients. And with Promo Hunt, we sort of started off building a product search tool, but soon pause development on that, realizing that it would be really hard to get people to change their habits and stop using tools like Sage and ESP that they've grown accustomed to using over decades. And one thing we did that has been our, I think, biggest success to date, is we've developed a browser extension. And this is a browser extension that is free for promotional product and distributors and decorators to install. And once they install it, anytime they go to a website like S&S, PCNA promo or any of the 4000 different suppliers that serve distributors and decorators will show you that suppliers phone number, their email address, your pricing with them, offers they want to present to you. And to date, the browser extension has been installed on about 7000 different computers in our industry, and it's been showing helpful information about 100 and 50 million times over the last seven years. So on many occasions, we've provided a lot of time savings and offers to different distributors and decorators. And then what we're most excited about today with Promo Hunt is through a browser extension, we're able to if someone's looking at like a belly canvas T on any supplier website, we're able to help them understand if they're getting the best price on that T where they're at today, or if they could save maybe by looking at pricing from another supplier. So we're providing features, again for free, to decorators and distributors, so that they can see all their prices on one place and stop wasting as much time. I'm logging into different supplier websites and checking pricing on them, and we're also showing decorators and distributors product suggestions too, through Promo Hunts browser extensions. So you know, let's say one of our users is on the S&S active wear Adidas polo, and they want some additional ideas to put in front of their client. Well, all they have to do is click a button, and then we'll present over 30 ideas to them instantly they're highly related to that product they were just looking at from S&S and other suppliers. And we make it really fast and easy for decorators and distributors to get really great ideas in front of their customers. So that's sort of like what we're up to now with Promo Hunt and how we got here.

Marshall Atkinson 
So you must do a lot of time talking with people, right? And really understanding their challenge, right? Because, you know they're, they're in the trenches every day. You know, going to battle, trying to trying to eke out a living, right? And and you are delivering tools and helpful tools, right? And that must come from a lot of listening, so tell me about that a little bit.

Tony Wavering 
Yeah. I mean one, one unique advantage that we have at Promo Hunt is we, we build with tons of empathy for companies that sell promotional products and apparel, because I sold promotional products and apparel for about seven years full time. And in addition to me having a lot of empathy for that type of customer too, we speak with tons of customers. We love, visiting them in person when possible, spending a day or more at the office for different companies, so that we can really just observe and ask questions to better understand why they operate way they do, and what types of challenges and pain they find frustrating and like to get rid of. So yeah, totally like spend a ton of time with prospects and customers to better understand their businesses and where we could potentially add value.

Marshall Atkinson 
Right. And one of the things I know that you do is you throw up a little poll or a survey or something on Facebook, I see that all attract like. If you were this, doing this, what would you like, right? And it's just really kind of taking the temperature on some things. So what's the biggest payoff of doing that? Because I think, you know, somebody listening, they've got customers, and how often are they ever surveying their customers? Right? You do it all the time. So why are you doing that Tony?

Tony Wavering 
Yeah, I think when I ask questions in like a Facebook group, it really just helps us better understand, maybe, like, existing behaviors and pain. I remember asking a question about a year ago that was something like, if you're buying an average If replacing an average size order for Gildan T or similar, how many different supplier websites are you going to visit to compare prices on? And we found that like 70% of respondents visited two or more supplier websites, and so that was like a great clear signal to me on Oh, wow, people are probably spending a lot of time going to supplier websites, changing pricing. Maybe there's an opportunity here to reduce the amount of waste time, if we can bring this information to them that they might find helpful. So, yeah, those are we love being part of those different Facebook groups and also noticing distributors might answer questions very differently for decorators, because these two customer segments are super different in terms of their behaviors and the way they price orders, for example, or pass along sale prices when like apparel distributors are offering them. So it's been really great to be able to with with different Facebook groups, understand and see how answers vary among like each of the audiences and those Facebook groups, and it's free, and it's instant feedback, and there's always good information in the comment sections too, that helps us understand who we might want to follow up with to dig deeper into different topics.

Marshall Atkinson 
What's an example of, like, the most surprising answer that you learn from that? Like, you're like, oh my god, I'm even thinking that.

Tony Wavering 
Yeah, I still think my favorite whole question was, how many blank apparel distributors do you shop when you're going to place an average sized apparel order? And seeing 40% of time respondents go to three or more supplier websites. I mean, that is the business problem that we're really most focused on solving right now. And that was super interesting. Maybe one other interesting thing that I learned was that decorators tend to not price a lot pass along sale pricing to their customers. Whereas maybe 50% of the time, distributors do pass along sale pricing. So if s and s, for example, is offering a sale price on a Gildan T, distributors seem to be much more willing to pass on some of the savings to their customer than a decorator will. So just seeing like night and day behavior differences regarding pricing, has been really interesting to learn more about. I was not expecting that at all.

Marshall Atkinson 
So you told me once about a great acronym. There's kind of a segue here, which is about collecting new ideas, which is nihito n, i, h, i, t, o, nothing interesting happens in the office. What does this mean Tony, and how are you actually using this?

Tony Wavering 
Yeah, so I think in principle, it means that it's a really valuable use of your time to be in the market, to be in places where you're going to better understand your competitors, you're going to better understand your customers and channel partners. And you know, being present at events like trade shows. And you know, for me personally, in 2014 when I was running bidPress, and it was not performing well at all from an E commerce perspective, I decided was living in New York City at the time. I looked up online and saw a list of events that I could go attend over the next week, and I found one that was happening the very next day in New York City, and I decided, Okay, I'm gonna buy like this $400 ticket. Maybe something good can come out of this investment. And while the conference was good and maybe not by itself, delivering $400 of value to me. I went to a happy hour right after the conference ended and the bar open. Bar had not yet opened, and I saw this really tall guy standing at the bar who also learned that the drinks weren't yet free, and I offered to grab him a beer. And his first question to me was, I'm Bill, I run this company, and what do you do? And my response to him was, oh, I'm Tony. I run a company called bidPress. We run a marketplace for customer apparel, and, you know, make it much faster and cheaper for companies like yours to buy apparel. And his response was, oh, we we buy a lot of T shirts. And I said, Well, I'd love to give you a quote some time. And you know, fast forward 10 years, I'd sold over 100,000 shirts and many other types of products into that company. And you know, that became a like seven figure business relationship that was very serendipitous, and it's all because I decided to get out of the apartment and to go put myself in front of people who could potentially be helpful and couldn't  believe that happened.

Marshall Atkinson 
Yeah, so I was just talking about this very same thing with a client yesterday on a sales call, coaching call, excuse me. And one of the things we talked about was, you know, they have a staff of sales folks that are younger, like they're, they're in their 20s, right? And they have a really hard time actually having conversations with people and meeting people. They're like, timid little squirrels, right? And and going to an event or going to a client's office, cold calling and meeting them is like, you know, root canal or something. They're they don't want to do, they don't want to do that at all. And then, and then people like me, right, who grew up without a cell phone. And I just think the cell phones have ruined it for lots of people it, you know, because my nose isn't in the phone all day. And firstly, I'd rather not be on the phone, right? And I'd rather be talking with people, and I do a lot of zoom calls, that's my preferred method of doing stuff and or going there, right? And I think getting out of your office and going to see people, if you're trying to get sales, and tell me if you agree with this, if you're trying to get. It's sales, right? People will buy one shirt on the internet, Instagram, Facebook, pretty easily, right? But if you're trying to sell 10,000 shirts, right, you're trying to get a big client, there's no way that that pay per click ad is going to convert that right? It's all about trust and loyalty and relationships and meeting people and people just seeing, you know, do I trust this person, right? And I think you know, in your case, buying a complete stranger of beer and spending six bucks, or what, you know, probably New York, probably 12 bucks, right, on on a beer, right? You know, how much has that paid off for you, just because you're being generous and just stick out your hand and introduce yourself. There's like a lost art for that, right? And we live on the tech and the internet. I mean, that's like your whole business, but at the end of the day, it's about these relationships that solidify thing, right? What do you think about that?

Tony Wavering 
I completely agree. I think that when I started selling, I was very at tons of room for improvement there. And, you know, with practice and practice and practice, things became more comfortable, and it was also so great to just always get feedback. One thing that's great about being in front of prospects is they're constantly giving you feedback, and so that you can refine your pitch, refine how you'd like to say things maybe, besides, you should be in front of different types of prospects. So I really enjoy how it's just such a great like learning opportunity. And you know, the faster you learn, the more value you're going to get out of all of those additional conversations that you can have. And I totally agree.

Marshall Atkinson 
Yeah. And let me tell you, I go to a lot of trade shows, and all of the businesses happening in the bar or in line of coffee trying to get coffee or in the bar right, and that's where everything's done. So so if you're going to one of those, I'll see you in line for coffee, or I'll see you at the bar later, that's where I'm going to be right, all right. So just shifting gears, you know, in any business we rely on our tech stack to help us manage everything, right? And you know, that's your corner of the world. So what do you think a listener right now needs to understand about trying out and learning some of these things with a new tool, right? And everybody wants to do it the old way, and sometimes the new tool can really help them, right? So how do they get out of that habit and just, just take a test, test, just try it, right? Go to Costco and eat the peanut butter on the cracker to see if you like it. How do we get people to do that? Tony, what's the secret?

Tony Wavering 
There's a saying in software that no one got fired for using IBM. And I think in our industry, you know, you could probably make the same statement and replace the word IBM with like Sage, ESP, or certain other tools that tend to be widely used. And I think that, like, there's a lot of opportunity for improvement with many of these tools that tend to be widely used. And I think it's often true that, like the incumbents that have a lot of market share are not necessarily the most innovative companies. And I think that if you companies should really prioritize, like trying a new software company. And you know, I think that there's a lot of hesitation to do that, though, because if it goes poorly, it could impact your your job, your trajectory at a company. I also think it's related to this, you know, concept where, if you're at a casino and you win $100 and you get a little kick of the dopamine. It's it's not nearly the same type of kick you get when you win 100 as it is, if you lose 100 there's it's a lot more painful to have lost $100 and to have like $100 and I think that losses are much something that's felt much more intensely than like a win. And I think people are worried about potentially, like, having a loss when they try new software. But I think just remember that with software, you can de risk things along the way, try to try before you buy, experiment a little bit up front. And I think, like all companies should have some sort of like monthly allocation for time that they would spend experimenting. It could be not just experimenting in your print shop or but, but it should also extend to experimenting with software and different tools that folks are using, and I think that that would be a really good use of resources. And you know, software can have these really big payoffs that can really compound over time. And I think that it's absolutely, really worthwhile to experiment with software, because, again, the payoffs can just be so huge when you when you find a new tool that makes your company more efficient or helps you sell more effectively.

Marshall Atkinson 
Yeah, I still agree, and I try stuff like, all the time, constantly, right? I'm always like, goofing around with it, and whatever, and, and, you know, right now, my bromance is with Midourney, right? Which is AI integration, right? And we don't have to go down that road, but it's, it's awesome, okay, yeah, but I use other tools, right? So I have one of my favorites is this thing called Text Expander, right? So I can just type in the letter Z in a word, and pre written email populates, and I can just change two things in it, and I can hit send. And so I send a lot of the same emails out all the time, and I'll ever have to write them, right? And so that's just one example. And then, of course, there's ChatGPT and other stuff, right? And so I think you don't know about this stuff, unless you just, you just try it, right? And you just kind of play around with it, you know, I use Loom all the time. You know, at one point I never did use Loom, you know. And hey, at one point, I never did a podcast, right? And so, you know, you never know where it's going to take you and what opportunities will surface. And I think the thing about software, especially for the type of stuff that you do right, is that it saves people time. And as we all know, time is money, right? So if you can conquer a problem in less time, that means you can be working on other things, and, and I think that's what's really important to think about here, right? And, and I think, of course, yeah, some stuff has costs, right? And but if you look at the annual spend of your labor right? you can see that the cost of whatever you're paying for something is minuscule to the amount of let me rephrase that so the the payback you get, payback you get on doing something like this is exponentially better than what the cost is, right? And be just because, you know, it's time invested that we can be doing other things and and everybody is so overwhelmed these days, right? And anything we could do to get an edge, anything that we can do to save time, is just going to pay huge dividends at the end of the day. And I think, you know Promo Hunt, and you know all the other products that you do, those things really help people make good decisions and save time at the same time, and that's why I think it's really sticky, which is the reason why I wanted you on the show, right is because you know, you're, you're, you know, you're the quiet professional doing this stuff, right? And, and you've got a lot of fans, a lot of people use your products, but you know, I don't see you on the trade search circuit talking about it, right? So it's like, let's, let's get them on the show and talk, right?

Tony Wavering 
Yeah, sometimes we go to show. So would love to connect with you if you'll ever be at the same show. One, one thing that is also really great about like, being a decorator or a promotional product distributor as that that in these Facebook groups, you can ask questions like, What do you think of Promo Hunt? What do you think of Chipley? what do you think of Order My Gear? etc. And there is an abundance of feedback that is free that you can get instantly, and that's usually pretty informative, and helping you get ideas for what types of software may be worth trying out or not, and so I really love like Facebook groups in terms of their ability to help you source ideas and help you understand, maybe relative, understand the landscape of different options in a specific space.

Marshall Atkinson 
I have a love hate relationship with Facebook. You know, I I love it, but I do like, a 10 minute drive by just about every day, because it's like a really bad traffic accident, usually, and right, there's always somebody there who thinks they know something, and they really don't.

Tony Wavering 
A lot of entertainment value in Facebook, if you find that type of thing entertaining.

Marshall Atkinson 
Yeah. All right. So, hey, last question, you ready?

Tony Wavering 
I am.

Marshall Atkinson 
So more than probably any other guest I've had on the show, you've probably got your finger on the pulse of the industry. You know, you're really looking at stuff and asking lots of questions, right? So, you know, what should everybody be looking for, I think, and paying attention to right now, right what seems like it's right around the corner that maybe it's not built yet, or maybe we need to pay attention more to it. What do you think is something that's kind of could be sticky in a year or two or three?

Tony Wavering 
Yeah, so a few ideas. And I know we've spoken about this already, but I think, like price comparison tools, product suggestion tools, those tools are here today, and I think they're here to stay, and can just add a ton of value right away. I think that product search tools are going to continue to get better. I personally really enjoy using like chatGPT to see how it does in terms of recommending products for different and customer use cases. For example, like maybe an end customer is going to say, hey, we've got a Kids event at a zoo. What 10 promotional product ideas would be good that are under $10 and chatGPT does a surprisingly good job of coming up with some ideas, and it can be a good, relatively inexpensive partner to bounce ideas off of. So I think those types of tools will continue to get better. We at Promo Hunt have operated a lot in the online store space and print on demand store space. And so personally, super excited to continue to watch DTF and print quality evolved there. It's already phenomenal. And again, can't wait to see where it goes. I think that there's a ton of opportunity with regards to artwork and the ways in which AI can help with that, I'm blown away when I use tools like vectorizer.ai. It's a very inexpensive way of having raster images converted to vector. And you know, are they perfect 100% of the time? No. But for 50% of the art files you're going to upload there, is it going to be perfect? Yes, and you can decide, you know, how much you want to throw at it. And it's usually pretty effective at converting files to vector files, I think, like auto digitizing will, you know, eventually get to a better and better place where it's going to be able to take a lot of the simple art files that you might want to have digitized and do it instantly for you and very inexpensively. Another thing I'm pretty excited about is automated mock ups as well. And I know already with online stores, a lot of folks enjoy automated mock ups, but I think there's a really large opportunity for mock ups to be automated in areas outside of stores and in areas like sales presentations or proofing and the technologies are already here today that can really bring a lot of efficiencies to automated mock ups, and I'm excited to See a company eventually solve that problem.

Marshall Atkinson 
Yeah, I love that idea. Tony, you know, I'm an ex art director, right? And, so kind of a anything that I can take the shirt and I can have the in, maybe it knows, like the dimensions of a size large, and it prints the art because it's 12 inches square, let's say, and it puts it on the shirt at the exact size. And then we could add information about Pantone colors or whatever, and that type of deal. But what would be really cool is, if you know, it would email a reminder to your client every six hours until they respond. Okay? So, you know, we don't have to keep nagging our customers to approve that damn thing, right? We can, you know, that would, that would be a really good feature. And then also, any comments, there's a timeline, you know, changes, you know, all of that stuff, terms and conditions would be cool, you know, because I know a lot of people, after the second or third change, they start with art fees. They get added, right? And so maybe on that third one, but they go, Hey, are you sure you want this change? Because there's a $50 fee insert your credit card here, right? And I don't know how well that would get over, but I know that a lot of people are doing, they're changing, I mean, charging for stuff like that. So, you know. And of course, you know, there's two reasons why jobs don't ship. Is, where are the goods? They're still in transit, and then, how come the art is not approved, right? Those the main, two main reasons, right? And so anything to help with that, I think would be a just a huge win. And now that, you know, we've got AI and we've got some different things, you know, I think would be really great. Is just information flowing. To people to make better decisions. And of course, I'm not a I'm not a genius, like you, dude, so all I know is I want more information at my fingertips so I can make a better decision. I can help my customer with right? We have tools that can find all this stuff. Can we build a dashboard or something that just to put it in front of us so we can say, Yeah, that one, right? And, and I think that's going to be really great. You know, when more stuff like that happens, that's kind of how, you know, I see it in the the other thing I think is, you know, the whole online store business is just really going to evolve. I think people are really, really being empowered and making a lot more margin by doing smaller orders using DTF and just churning this stuff out, because they can sell it at a higher price, and they're getting more money for that. And again, of course, with DTF, you're avoiding the screen room, and you're avoiding the embroidery machine, right, or whatever. And I just think it's, it's going to be just, that's where everything is heading, right. And now you've got, like, Stahls has, like, flex embroidery, right? Which is, like a fake embroidery thing. So you don't need to spend 10 minutes embroidering that dry fit polo. You could just heat press it, and it looks like it's embroidered, right? So the more we do that kind of thing, the faster that we're returning stuff, because everybody's used to the Amazon delivery, right? And wanting things, you know, as Americans, you know, we're an impatient bunch.

Tony Wavering 
We are.

Marshall Atkinson 
We want it now, right? So what do you what do you think? AI, well, you just, you know, just kind of wrap up with that, right? Are you thinking about that? Are you doing anything with that and what your work involves?

Tony Wavering 
Right. Where we've used it the most to date has been around developing really great product suggestions for apparel. So you can be on any product, on any website that sells apparel with our tool and click a button present like 30 really relevant product ideas to you. And we use AI to exclude products that we notice are in a completely different category than maybe what you're trying to source. So that's one way in which we use it. We've experimented and having it craft customer service types of replies to people who ask us questions and have support tickets. We've not been very satisfied with its performance to date there, so we're sort of pausing on on that test, but I know that in the future, we will continue to use it for improving things like product search and, you know, other types of products that we want to release, and are super excited about how much friction it reduces and capabilities it opens up in terms of, like, how much value we can deliver with being a relatively small company in the industry.

Marshall Atkinson 
Right. Well, cool. Well, I can't wait to see what you guys push out. Keep doing what you're doing. Man, you're making a big difference. So appreciate you. Thank you so much for being on the show with us today. What's the best way to contact you if someone wants to learn more about what you do or maybe how you can help them?

Tony Wavering 
Absolutely feel free to shoot me an email at tony@promohunt.com

Marshall Atkinson 
Okay, cool. And Thanks Tony. Appreciate you, buddy.

Tony Wavering 
Likewise, thanks for having me.